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ShaunKranish
Executive Director
Founders Club
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 3688
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I've proposed to the ICarry board for ICarry to start laying the groundwork for vermont-style carry aka Constitution Carry next year for Wisconsin. Nothing will happen with the current governor in the way of legislation, but next year I think we have a real chance.

It will be much simpler from a legal standpoint to simply remove the prohibitions on concealed carry. Wisconsin already has open carry. All we need to do is remove the prohibitions against concealed carry, and fix the vehicle and Gun Free School Zones problem. The lawsuit filed by Wisconsin Carry is already underway to take care of the GFSZ.

It would be much more difficult to come up with a whole permit system, new paperwork, fees, red tape, bureaucrats, lots of $$$, etc to do a permit system. Wisconsin is in a very good position to go to Constitution Carry in my opinion. It's very worth the try for people to be able to carry according to their preference, what suits them best, what is most comfortable and most safe for them without having to ASK FOR PERMISSION FROM GOVERNMENT.

It is RIGHT to carry, not PRIVILEGE to carry. I think we should treat it as such. This is why I've proposed to the ICarry board to support this initiative. I will let everyone know what is decided.


Last edited by ShaunKranish on Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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regulatedIllinoisan
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:14 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bravo!

We would need to coordinate this effort with Wisconsin Carry, NRA, etc.

Wave at us, "WAVE", as we go by... we're on our way to concealed carry in Wisconsin!
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SteveWagner
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree, it sads we could possbilby go from concealed carrys worst case to best case without any middleground just cause one retarded politician leaves office. Im glad hes leaving and really optomistic constitutional carry will be passed here.
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ScottWuerch
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Eau Claire County, WI
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Joined: Nov 08, 2009
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Location: West Central Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Let us know what we can do when, Shaun!!

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ShaunKranish
Executive Director
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 3688
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'll be focusing heavily on law enforcement. We want to be good ambassadors to them. We want to help ease them through this and win them over to our side. They have nothing to fear from us, and nothing to fear from anyone who follows current law by NOT illegally concealing a pistol. So allowing both open and concealed will not change anything or make their job harder.

As firearms owners, nothing makes us more angry than when a criminal uses a firearm to commit a crime. We want to work WITH law enforcement to stop crime and figure out new ways to combat it.
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ShaunKranish
Executive Director
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Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

We would actually save the legislature a lot of time and money by simply removing bad prohibitions - which are unconstitutional to boot - and allowing those carrying weapons to do so responsibly in the manner they choose in regards to visibility. Visibility changes nothing - it's just a personal preference and what works best for the person BEARING the arm.

Every state in the nation is working to expand carry rights. One by one may issue are turning shall issue, and shall issue are turning Constitution carry.

Public Message #1: Wisconsin should opt to be ahead of the curve and adopt Constitution Carry because it works great and will save the legislature, courts, and overall the state a lot of money.

Public Message #2: People can and do, and will continue to do so even more, carry openly WITHOUT A PERMIT. This has caused no problems, people have done it responsibly, and it has helped deter crime. Those people open carrying should be able to decide if it's more comfortable or suitable for them to wear under the clothes. Visibility means nothing - Constitution Carry allows those carrying to choose the best and safest method for them.

Public Message #3: The Wisconsin State Constitution guarantees the right to carry guns for all lawful and responsible purposes. This means a law-abiding people in Wisconsin can carry the way they want - open OR concealed. The right to keep and bear arms is not dependent upon visibility.

Public Message #4: Wisconsin will not give up open carry without a permit. We will exercise this more and more and push harder and harder until Constitution Carry - allowing us to decide upon whether clothes are under or over a firearm - is respected by law. If you install a permit system, open carry will continue to grow and push for Constitution Carry. Don't waste our time, don't waste our energy, don't waste the states time and money.

Public Message #5: Adopting Constitution Carry and allowing law-abiding adults to carry concealed just like they carry openly now will have the greatest possible reduction in crime. Criminals will now have to worry who is and who is not able to defend themselves. If you want to combat crime, punish those who victimize people and keep them in prison - stop letting them out. The rights of law-abiding people are not dependent upon the actions of criminals.

I just whipped those up, but that's an example. The shorter and more concise we can make these the better. Now we need to work out some "terms." I like Right to Carry and I like Constitution Carry. We should also use the word "transition" and "visibility" as much as possible. Transition to Right to Carry or Transition to Constitution Carry.

This argument should be centered around the fact that the visibility of a pistol should not be a matter of law. Responsible people should be able to carry and choose for themselves on the visibility of their pistol.
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ShaunKranish
Executive Director
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Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I really believe the most important thing we can do is get our unified message, which depends a lot on using terms or slogans, down pat. The message should be pretty short, very simple, and we need to drill it in all over the state.

Basically what we're doing is using the anti-gunners strategy against them. "Common-sense restrictions..." ""assault weapons"" "Gun violence" "Background checks on all sales"

These are some examples of what the anti-freedom crowd uses, and while their numbers are minuscule compared to ours, by keeping their message unified and using terms/slogans they're able to accomplish a lot. So let's give it right back to them.

Here's some ideas that come to mind:


Terms:

1) "Constitutional Compliance" - in order to be constitutionally compliant, Wisconsin must allow those who bear arms to be able to choose the method that best suits their responsible use (to carry for the event of self-defense).

2) "Right to carry" - We should avoid at all costs talking about "concealed carry." The word concealed has a negative association - hiding. We are not hiding anything. Furthermore, concealed carry is vague in that it can be a permit system or a non-permit system. However, "concealed carry" is more suggestive of a creation of law which promotes the idea that the right to carry concealed does not exist and instead it is a privilege that law must create. This is untrue. We want to be looking ahead and not limiting ourselves. Instead of concealed carry, we should use "Right to Carry" which does NOT have a negative association, which promotes the idea of the individual preexisting right to bear a tool for self-defense in the manner best suitable to your needs/preferences, etc.

3) "TRANSITION" - We are in the transition to Right to Carry. There's no more uncertainty about it. It's going to happen. This puts us in the TRANSITION to Right to Carry, and we should use the word TRANSITION as much as possible. Using this word is like crossing the checkered finish line. You're already on the winning side. There's no longer the battle or race, it's finished. Now you're just waiting for your trophy Smile

Also, this should help disarm some of the contention against right to carry. Instead of arguing about concealed carry with fools who don't see the national trend on the matter, it's better to send the message that right to carry is inevitable. It's a certainty, it's definite, it's only a matter of time. As such, we are in a transition.

4) "PISTOL" - please use this instead of "gun." Pistol sounds much more innocent and non-threatening. Weapon should NOT be used and handgun should DEFINITELY not be used ever. Every time you use one of these words God kills a kitten.


Slogans:

1) "Constitution carry in Wisconsin will not change who can carry a gun. Criminals are still barred. It only allows those who can already carry to do so the way that works best for them."

2) "Self-defense is a human right" - this one is pretty self-explanatory. Perhaps it can be part of our LIMITED unified message if there is room.

3) "Dangerous criminals don't ask anyone if they can carry under their clothes, responsible citizens shouldn't have to."


Last edited by ShaunKranish on Tue May 18, 2010 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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regulatedIllinoisan
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

How should we begin pushing for this?
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ShaunKranish
Executive Director
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

We can start talking about it on the Internet like we are now, and try to get people to use the unified message/terms/slogans. Keep pounding and pounding it. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Reminds me of my 8th grade science teacher. When we were that age we used to make fun of him because he was a little goofy. But looking back, he was probably the best teacher I ever had. I think I learned and memorized more information and facts in that class than in any other class.

What did he do? We would always "drill" and it was going over the same information, very quickly, over and over again. He even had an electronic buzzer system that we'd use (like jeopardy) and we'd be split into 3 teams. Repetition repetition repetition. Works like a damned charm. That's how the bozos on TV brainwash people into thinking guns create the problem Rolling Eyes

I've witnessed first hand the anti-gunners talking to the media. They don't really answer direct questions or make any valid arguments. All they do is spew out soundbites over and over again. It works, the news plays them and they sound good to ignorant people.


THE #1 GOLDEN ARGUMENT ABOVE ALL ELSE FOR CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY IN WISCONSIN. THE ARGUMENT STOPPER. THE SHUT-ANYONE-UPPER....

People already open carry without a permit, there aren't any problems, and those people should be able to choose to cover what they carry with clothing if they choose - they shouldn't be thrown in jail for it like current law states!!!!


So rather than getting into statistics, anecdotes, or too many other arguments. The point is responsible people already carry loaded pistols and allowing those same responsible people to carry the same pistols and simply having it covered with their clothes is not going to create any problems.



We will get some print material made up and begin distributing it around the state. We can also do some advertising on radio. In the meantime, let's start with the net Smile


Repetition repetition repetition. I can already visualize and feel myself carrying concealed in Wisconsin without needing a permit. I will still mostly carry openly, but it will be nice to conceal it just to enjoy what we worked for after the law is changed!
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TylerH
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Shirt tucked in with pistol exposed = peaceful law abiding citizen

Shirt untucked with pistol concealed = dangerous criminal citizen

That makes sense to me!

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6010rocks
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 5:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

TyGuy wrote:
Shirt tucked in with pistol exposed = peaceful law abiding citizen

Shirt untucked with pistol concealed = dangerous criminal citizen

That makes sense to me!


nope shirt untucked pistol concealed rights infringed by laws

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Yurko
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I've all ready contacted my state senator & assemblyman.

So far Bob Ziegelbauer (Bob.Ziegelbauer@legis.wisconsin.gov) has responded.

He said...
So far I'm comfortable supporting a concealed carry bill that resembles the "Gunderson bill" that was vetoed by Governor Doyle in 2006. I think this proposal you reference might be a bit more change than the people of the State would feel comfortable with right now, but I'll keep an open mind on it.

For reference - Here's my position on "concealed carry" and some history on it.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/assembly/asm25/news/Issue%20Summaries/2009_5_Concealed.Carry.Personal.Protection.pdf


Call on me anytime I can be of assistance.
Thanks

Bob Ziegelbauer


My response is, that's gonna cost taxpayers even more than we all ready spend.
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regulatedIllinoisan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Even the NRA is now on board with bringing Constitution Carry to Wisconsin! Cool

Quote:
NRA to Push Aggressive Legislative Agenda During
Wisconsin's 2011 Legislative Session

Thursday, December 16, 2010

Last November’s landmark elections are creating historic opportunities for the cause of freedom in the Badger State. With the combined efforts of gun owners and hunters, anti-freedom majorities in the Assembly and Senate were removed from power, replaced by pro-freedom lawmakers. Scott Walker, the NRA Political Victory Fund’s endorsed candidate for Governor, will soon succeed Jim Doyle, who relished his title as the most anti-gun Governor in state history. Doyle’s departure marks an end to a very long and dark chapter in Wisconsin’s history. Longtime friend of gun owners, J.B. Van Hollen, was re-elected Attorney General.

Shortly after the 2010 primary elections, the NRA engaged its members throughout the state in an energetic Vote Freedom First campaign. The response was overwhelming. At event after event, the one issue that candidates talked about time and time again was the Right to Carry. They recognize that the day when law-abiding citizens can discreetly protect themselves from violence outside of their homes is long overdue. It is now time for the candidates-turned-elected-officials to convert their words into action.

Because of Jim Doyle’s distrust of the people, he twice vetoed Right to Carry legislation during his terms in office. Each time, the bills were passed with two-thirds majorities in both houses. This should have been enough to overcome Doyle’s veto pen, but three Assembly members chose partisan politics over personal protection and shamelessly changed their votes from “yes” to “no” during the two override votes in 2004 and 2006.

Past legislative efforts to secure the Right to Carry always assumed that a veto override would be necessary. Attempting to secure two-thirds majorities required the NRA and other proponents to accept amendments during the legislative process that sought to place additional restrictions on the good citizens of Wisconsin and would have impeded their ability to protect themselves. With the makeup of the incoming legislature, these unnecessary concessions should no longer be necessary.

The NRA will strive to make Wisconsin’s 2011 Right to Carry law one of the strongest in the country. The experience of 40 other Right to Carry states has eliminated any question as to whether citizens can be trusted to act safely and responsibly. The laws of Vermont, Alaska and Arizona will be used as the model. The latter two, in particular, will set the standard with systems that recognize the citizens’ constitutional right to carry firearms for self-defense along with a provision that will provide for the streamlined issuance of a state permit that can be used for reciprocity purposes in other states while traveling. The primary difference between the open carry provision that has always been part of Wisconsin’s statutes and “Constitutional Carry” is that citizens will finally be able to discreetly carry firearms in public. As we all know, this leaves criminals guessing as to who has the ability to defend themselves against aggression.

With displays of courage and strong leadership from your elected officials; your commitment to be actively involved in the legislative efforts to come; and the NRA’s dedication to this cause, we can achieve an historic victory for Wisconsin gun owners that will last for generations.
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ShaunKranish
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

WOW!!! This is news, indeed. It looks like we can work with the NRA to turn this into a reality.

And the only downside will be the criminal commuters that come from Wisconsin down to Illinois. More and more criminals in Wisconsin will want to come down to the safe-haven criminal working environment that is Illinois, rather than risk meeting an armed would-be victim exercising his or her constitutionally-protected rights up in Wisconsin.
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Yurko
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is VERY good news!

CC in WI 2011!!!! Woo-hoo Wink

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