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mmorris
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Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Southern Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Shaun,

I received your email “Concealed carry really is coming” and I am unsure how you assert that the Supreme Court of the State of Illinois "just ruled that you can carry an unloaded gun – even with loaded magazines - in the console and presumably other compartments of your car without having to use a second case!” I have read the referenced opinion and I find no mention whatsoever of ammunition in the opinion of the court. The only mention of ammunition is in the Background section describing Boland’s testimony as to the results of his search of the vehicle. This opinion relates to determining whether the center console of a vehicle is a “case” within the meaning of Section 24–1.6(c)(iii) of the Criminal Code.

Quote:
Docket No. 106367.
IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, Appellant, v.
MICHAEL DIGGINS, Appellee.
Opinion filed October 8, 2009.

Opinion
… In the case at bar, we are asked to determine whether the center console of a vehicle is a “case” within the meaning of this provision. For the reasons that follow, we conclude that it is.


I want to point out that inclusion of the testimony that ammunition was found in the same container as the firearm is not an indication that the Court addressed this issue at all. In fact, it did not.

We are all depending on the Illinois State Police pamphlet titled Transport Your Firearm Legally - Commonly Asked Questions On Transporting Firearms in Illinois, which states that “The location of ammunition being transported, including ammunition being transported in loaded magazines, is not regulated if the firearm is possessed or transported lawfully…” as our defense if challenged. The phrase “is not regulated” simply means that the state has not addressed this issue at all. There is no law on the books for the police to follow. This is a much less secure position than I would like. Watch carefully for legislation to be put forward to clarify ammunition being in the same container as the firearm, probably not as we would like it to be.

Mike Morris
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ShaunKranish
Executive Director
Founders Club
Executive Director<br /><b>Founders Club</b>


Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 3687
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'd personally rather not have the legislature "address" this issue. I could say the same about most other issues.

If something is not regulated, then that is the best thing. Wisconsin's "open carry" for example is simply not regulated. There is no law that says you CAN open carry, but there is no law that says you CAN'T either.

They can't create laws to specify everything we can do. And frankly, I wouldn't want them to start doing that because it would lead more people to come to the false conclusion that we derive our rights from government. Such is not the case.

You're right that Diggins does not specifically say that you can have the ammo in the case. Nor does it say that the gun can be a semi-auto, or that it can be a revolver, or that you can have hollow-points, or that you can have as many rounds as you like...

Do you see my point? It's irrelevant. The fact is that since this is not regulated, we can do it. And since we can, we should. And if we don't, it will be easier for them to change it.


The only way we're going to get law enforcement departments to respect our rights is by exercising them and standing firm. If we keep showing them that we're wishy-washy and that we'll tolerate anything they do to us over guns, then they will keep on doing it. It doesn't mean they are all bad - some of them are very ignorant of the law, and many of them have forgotten that their job is to protect our rights. They're worried that if they don't arrest the guy who has a gun, and that guy goes and shoots people...they are in trouble.

The biggest thing is that by so few people exercising this right, it's not commonplace. Since it's not commonplace, it becomes more suspect and they become more unsure of it. We have to change that. By doing so it will bring us a lot closer to a real concealed carry law as well. So far we have yet to give the legislature enough motivation to give us what we want.

We can't be REACTIVE and wait for the supreme court or superman or anyone else either. We need to be proactive and take this - NOW.
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TylerH
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Huzzaaahh Shaun!

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mmorris
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Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Southern Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Only said "that you can carry an unloaded gun – even with loaded magazines - in the console" isn't what the court ruled.

Too many people talk as if there was legislation to back this up, and I think it's important to clarify the difference.

I agree that I don't want the legislature addressing this issue, but I guarantee as soon as the anti-gunners realize this we will see someone trying to "fix" it.

My main point is that we need to recognize this as a place to watch. If I think my flank is secure because it is a rock bluff and don't watch out, the guy with a grappling hook will surprise me.

Mike
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junglebob
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

mmorris wrote:
Only said "that you can carry an unloaded gun – even with loaded magazines - in the console" isn't what the court ruled.

Too many people talk as if there was legislation to back this up, and I think it's important to clarify the difference.

I agree that I don't want the legislature addressing this issue, but I guarantee as soon as the anti-gunners realize this we will see someone trying to "fix" it.

My main point is that we need to recognize this as a place to watch. If I think my flank is secure because it is a rock bluff and don't watch out, the guy with a grappling hook will surprise me.

Mike


The legislature will most likely be addressing this issue in the Illinois house, HB5849 has been introduced requiring firearms to be cased when transported. Will it get out of committee and to the floor for debate? I don't know but contacting your rep about it if it does or before it does would be good. This could be followed at www.ilga.gov the Illinois General Assembly website. It will be with the bill grouping 5801-5900 click on that and go down the list.

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Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Killeen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we
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MarkPalmisano
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

These two items are seperate issues, but it is correct to say:

1. Is it legal to have ammunition in the case with the firearm?
Yes, so long as the firearm is unloaded and properly enclosed in a case.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

2. There is no specific wording to require that a case holding a firearm remains locked or is even lockable. Only that it encloses the firearm. And a center console is a case.

http://www.state.il.us/court/Opinions/SupremeCourt/2009/October/106367.pdf
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TylerH
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

That looks right to me Mark. Again, a local municipality might have further restrictions, but as far as the state goes, that sounds correct.

BTW I understand that the ammunition can be in the magazine as long as the firearm itself is not loaded, i.e. no round chambered, and no loaded magazine in the firearm. There has been a question as to whether an unloaded magazine in the firearm is ok or not.

Everyone else?

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junglebob
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Location: Southern Illinois

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

TyGuy wrote:
That looks right to me Mark. Again, a local municipality might have further restrictions, but as far as the state goes, that sounds correct.

BTW I understand that the ammunition can be in the magazine as long as the firearm itself is not loaded, i.e. no round chambered, and no loaded magazine in the firearm. There has been a question as to whether an unloaded magazine in the firearm is ok or not.

Everyone else?

Since the law only says loaded magazines can't be in the firearm, unloaded magazines should be fine. However why in the world would you want an unloaded magazine in your firearm, unless you expect the sight of a firearm with a magazine in it to frighten someone away. This is worse than being "6 seconds from safety"!

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Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Killeen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we
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TylerH
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Agreed junglebob. I was merely trying to cover all the bases when answering the question.

The only thing you can carry with you loaded in IL is baked potatoes. Or, if you apply for a POID you can carry loaded twice baked potatoes. Laughing

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MichaelChappell
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Piatt County
<b>Founders Club</b><br />County Coordinator<br><b>Piatt County</b>


Joined: Jan 19, 2010
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Location: Hammond, IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

TyGuy... that's too funny!! However, at the same time, it is VERY SAD!! I agree that an unloaded magazine is okay, but then again, you just put yourself 8-10 seconds from safety. Your best bet is to carry and Unloaded handgun with loaded mags in the same case. That way if needed, you can lock and cock the weapon in a hurry.

I don't like our current restrictions on carry, but I'd rather be "6 Seconds from Safety" than unprotected altogether!!

Agreed??

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Dorkweed
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Joined: Jan 02, 2006
Posts: 673
Location: Over By The Dental Floss

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

TyGuy wrote:
That looks right to me Mark. Again, a local municipality might have further restrictions, but as far as the state goes, that sounds correct.

BTW I understand that the ammunition can be in the magazine as long as the firearm itself is not loaded, i.e. no round chambered, and no loaded magazine in the firearm. There has been a question as to whether an unloaded magazine in the firearm is ok or not.

Everyone else?




Even if you are just passing through one of those "communist zones" with draconian gun laws in our state, and happen to be pulled over............you still have the right of free passage in Illinois.........regardless of any local ordinances. That is as long as you meet all criteria for legal transport per state, game and FOID laws. If you have a local address in these areas though..............bend over!!!!
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ptwheat
Newbie


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Does a Glove compartment constitute a "case" .by that I mean can I have a gun in the glove compartment with the loaded magizine right next to it but not in the firearm??
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XDFlash
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

ptwheat wrote:
Does a Glove compartment constitute a "case" .by that I mean can I have a gun in the glove compartment with the loaded magazine right next to it but not in the firearm??

In the state of Illinois, as of last year (2009) YES
You can have both an unloaded gun and the loaded magazine in your glove box.

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ptwheat
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Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Flash, thanks I was wondering about that. I dont want any trouble because Im transporting my firearm the "wrong way".Why dont they just let us carry them?? someday! thanks for your help
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CraigCelia
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Posts: 376

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:41 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Dorkweed wrote:
you still have the right of free passage in Illinois!!!!


Dorkweed,

What exactly does this mean? I've never heard this term used before? Just curious

(by the way, when I type out "dorkweed" I feel I am unjustly insulting you Laughing )
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