reciprocity

Lieutenant Joined: Nov 12, 2009 Posts: 2429

say for some reason you pull somebody over. and your in a shall issue state.

they have a permit which is out of state.

1st question, do you call the number on the back to verify the permit.?

2nd question do you care if the state has official "recipictory"? would you treat it like a drivers license good in all shall issue states as long as your following the laws

new question,

what would your procedure be for handling a ccw permit holder? example, you ask them to get out of the car but before they do they hand you their permit and wait for directions?

Cadet Joined: Dec 07, 2009 Posts: 54 Location: Elgin ILL

wait for direction after handing the cop. your ccw card . Treat it like a drivers license Felons can not have fire arms in any state not just ILL and ccw are only given out after a back ground check and also the Cop can run the person thew there PC in there car its not 1970 any longer

Private Joined: Sep 25, 2009 Posts: 146

I am not a LEO yet, but hope to be (have been applying for about 2 years).

This is probably what I would do (pending being trained to do otherwise).

6010rocks wrote:

say for some reason you pull somebody over. and your in a shall issue state.

they have a permit which is out of state.

1st question, do you call the number on the back to verify the permit.?

Yes. An insurance card can show an expiration date as still valid, but that doesn't mean it's been canceled and they just kept the card.

Similarly, just because they may have a permit doesn't mean it has been revoked and they just had a copy of it. Also, I don't know much about permits, but I would imagine they are as easy to fake as it seems a driver's license is.

6010rocks wrote:

2nd question do you care if the state has official "recipictory"? would you treat it like a drivers license good in all shall issue states as long as your following the laws

If I'm understanding this question correctly, you're asking if I would consider it valid even if my state technically does not. That's simple. If my state allows it, I'll allow it. If my state doesn't, I'll act accordingly, and it probably won't have you leaving with a smile.

6010rocks wrote:

new question,

what would your procedure be for handling a ccw permit holder? example, you ask them to get out of the car but before they do they hand you their permit and wait for directions?

It all depends on the vibe I get, and if they let me know right away (even if not needed).

I would at the very least ask where it is and to keep their hands where I can see them. I would also suggest they move slowly when doing so.

Assuming all license plate checks etc. come back clear, the driver's attitude towards me will dictate if I do anything further. I might ask them to exit the vehicle, slowly. I would then tell them, "For your safety and for mine, I am going to disarm you for the remainder of this stop." I would then remove the firearm (as well as anything else that may do somebody harm like a knife or anything like that), unload it, and lock the slide back (probably with a zip tie). I know some officers will go as far as field stripping the gun and emptying the mag. I think that's a little much. If all goes well from there, you'll have your gun back and be on your way, possibly with even just a warning for whatever I initiated the stop for in the first place.

I realize that the second half of this answer may not be too popular. That's fine with me. Remember that cops risk their life every single day, and deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to safety. Just because you know you're not going to hurt the cop doesn't mean they know that.

As with everything else when dealing with LEOs, if you cooperate, things probably will end up just fine for you. If you don't, even if within your rights, it probably won't end well for you and you will be fighting an uphill battle for a long time.

**I speak only for myself as somebody who is applying to police departments. I by no means claim to be a LEO, nor do I speak for other LEOs or their policies, personal nor departmental...

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:39 am

Andrew, you stated:

""It all depends on the vibe I get, and if they let me know right away (even if not needed).

I would at the very least ask where it is and to keep their hands where I can see them. I would also suggest they move slowly when doing so.

Assuming all license plate checks etc. come back clear, the driver's attitude towards me will dictate if I do anything further. I might ask them to exit the vehicle, slowly. I would then tell them, "For your safety and for mine, I am going to disarm you for the remainder of this stop." I would then remove the firearm (as well as anything else that may do somebody harm like a knife or anything like that), unload it, and lock the slide back (probably with a zip tie). I know some officers will go as far as field stripping the gun and emptying the mag. I think that's a little much. If all goes well from there, you'll have your gun back and be on your way, possibly with even just a warning for whatever I initiated the stop for in the first place.

I realize that the second half of this answer may not be too popular. That's fine with me. Remember that cops risk their life every single day, and deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to safety. Just because you know you're not going to hurt the cop doesn't mean they know that. ""

Actually I am amazed at your response.
If I have a permit and I am legal, they why do you have the need to disarm me as if I am not legal?
If if have all he rights and a permit, I am as legal as you to be carrying, that is if you were to get the job as a LEO.

Private Joined: Sep 25, 2009 Posts: 146

XDFlash wrote:

Actually I am amazed at your response.
If I have a permit and I am legal, they why do you have the need to disarm me as if I am not legal?
If if have all he rights and a permit, I am as legal as you to be carrying, that is if you were to get the job as a LEO.

Your (not you specifically) attitude is a huge factor when dealing with the police.

Look at something like domestic disturbance. There is nothing against the law (that I know of) about arguing with a spouse, but the police are called. Maybe the guy hit his wife, maybe not, but there's no way to know. In domestics, emotions are very high. Even a law-abiding person can feel the urge to injure or kill.

Now, let's translate that to what we're talking about.

I know a lot of people who legally carry who are very adamant about their constitutional rights. They can get very emotionally charged about the topic. Now, if a cop knows the guy is armed, and the guy is getting all worked up about it, you can tell emotions are getting high. I'm not saying the guy is going to shoot a cop, but crazier things have happened.

Now, wouldn't you think a cop would be more at ease if you were cooperative. You don't have to give up your rights to be cooperative.

I'll go back on one thing I said earlier. The driver's response to me telling them I will disarm them could be on either end of the spectrum. There is a big difference between, "sir, I will keep my hands where you can see them and move slowly, but there is no reason to disarm me" than there is, "I know my rights, and you can't do that". They are saying the same thing, and both are within your rights, but one will probably end better than the other. You can be polite and still have your way. It works that way in all walks of life.

I know that if there's no reason for me to search your car, and you don't consent, there's nothing I can do. I'll do everything I can to preserve that when hired, and I know that a lot of people don't think cops do that.

But on the other side, if I feel there's good reason to be searching your car or disarming you, not cooperating will not get you very far.

I suppose this is all speculation on my part since I'm not yet hired. Maybe you should talk to your local dept and see what they say. I'd be interested in hearing their take.

Private Joined: Sep 25, 2009 Posts: 146

As an example:

MitchBeasley wrote:

[from a different thread re: informing an officer you have a firearm in the vehicle]

OK, while reading through this, it makes me feel like transporting a gun is like running drugs or something. maybe i'm spoiled with my small town police.
i have a friend who was pulled over on his way to my house to show off his new 9mm. my friend, we'll call him F, had his pistol case riding next to him in a single cab truck, and the officer, we'll call him O, reacted as follows:

(skipping past formalities)

O: is there a weapon in the vehicle?
F: yes sir, an unloaded 9mm in the case next to me.
O: *on radio* we have a weapon in the truck *walks back to his car, waits for a second car to pull up and second cop to join him in his car, chats, then both walk up to F, one on each side of the truck*
O: do you mind if we check to see if the gun is unloaded?
F: not at all, see for yourself
O:*second cop opens case, confirms it is unloaded, puts gun back in case, case back in truck* OK, thank you for letting us check. *second cop walks back to his car, waits* alright son, remember that it's only 45mph through here.

and that was all his gun added to the stop. being flanked by a second cop for a short bit of time, and a second squad car waiting behind the first until they both pulled away.

He cooperated, was polite, and had nothing to hide. All went well.

Private Joined: Aug 19, 2009 Posts: 261

"I know that if there's no reason for me to search your car, and you don't consent, there's nothing I can do. I'll do everything I can to preserve that when hired, and I know that a lot of people don't think cops do that.

But on the other side, if I feel there's good reason to be searching your car or disarming you, not cooperating will not get you very far."

As someone who has been a LEO, I will tell you that unless you adjust your attitude to a slightly calmer level, you will definitely have troubles you don't want or need, IF you ever become an officer.

As to me personally, if I step out of my vehicle, for any reason, the only way you will search it is with a warrant.

I messed up the quote box. Oops.