shooting at the National Guard armories

Corporal Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 788

I found this out today. Remember when people say that only police and military should be able to own "assault weapons". Well I have always complained about the lack of shooting that goes on in the guard and the reasons why. Many times it is money, plain and simple.

Most times the states guard is allocated a certain amount of money for many things. Ammunition being one of those things. So for the guard the minimum requirements for guard members is to shoot only once per year for qualification purposes. Sometimes it's more but usually only once per year.

Well, to get to the point, I found out that, at least in this state, ranges that are at armories cannot be used for shooting. The reason is because of the lead. So the state has closed all national guard ranges due to environment pollution.

Is this sounding familiar to Buffalo Range in Ottawa, but this isn't a civilian range. This is military range for military personal. Allowing the NG to use the ranges allows soldiers to practice a skill like shooting more often. Instead of having to go to Ft. McCoy or Malcellis, they could be able to practice at their armory with their civilian weapon or simply take out their assigned weapon and use that, just like police do. But I guess the EPA and anti-gunnies aren't going to allow that.

What do you think.

Private Joined: Dec 26, 2006 Posts: 190 Location: Harvard

Well the stupid f@cks who made these decisions were put in the by the populace. Let them rot when the SHTF and the guard can't do anything besides hand out water they will get what they deserve. I mean how much are these jack legs are paying for the new PSP? They pay more attention to desperet housewives and have no concern over how well the NG's, LEO's or even how well the Military is trained.

I am almost wanting the SHTF so we can rid our selves of more bottom feeders

Corporal Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 788

what is SHTF Question

Corporal Joined: Feb 11, 2006 Posts: 702

i lost on this one don,t even know what set him off.

Cadet Joined: Dec 12, 2006 Posts: 87

rwbazillion wrote:

what is SHTF Question

I'm scared that I know this...crap Hits The Fan?

Corporal Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 788

Quote:

Let them rot when the SHTF and the guard can't do anything besides hand out water they will get what they deserve.

Actually the NG will be fine when SHTF. But when I heard that the ranges within armories aren't used based upon lead and EPA standards I was like wow. I think that should be changed. anti-gunners cannot say that only military and police can use the ranges because it is only police and military that use the range. But if it were up to me, I would allow the range open for civilian use possibly, not sure how that could be done, but in general having an open range for NG members to practice would be great for the guard.

But things run on money and ammunition costs money. States are very strict with their budgets and allocating money for bullets for national guard members I would think isn't a priority for them. So they go for the least denominator which is the minimal requirements. Shoot once per year for qualification purposes.

Now I ask my shooters. Can you keep up a skill of shooting by shooting once per year? I wonder why police have ranges and NG doesn't that is an interesting question? How come the EPA doesn't get on the police agencies to close their ranges ?

Private Joined: Dec 26, 2006 Posts: 190 Location: Harvard

dwlawson wrote:

rwbazillion wrote:

what is SHTF Question

I'm scared that I know this...crap Hits The Fan?

YEP

Private Joined: Dec 26, 2006 Posts: 190 Location: Harvard

What set me off is that NG's don't get enough training in the first place. NG are first responders and yet get crap for training. Go Blow A B!tch is trying to give free healthcare to everyone in the state and making us even more bankrupt in the process. And yet everyone including the media is all in a tizzy about the new PSP.

Just a thought, if your dead because of a terrorist attack what good is your PSP?

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:02 am

Quote:

NG are first responders and yet get crap for training.

they are not first responders, you will not the NG responding to any thing before LEO, and fire. they suplement the ranks of those who are on the frount lines, but they do so after the lines have been established.

Private Joined: Sep 09, 2005 Posts: 184

They use to allow folks to use them, but after the OK bombing,. alot were shut down to civlians.

Example is the range over on Central, at the Armory in Arl Hts.

Private Joined: Dec 26, 2006 Posts: 190 Location: Harvard

emclean wrote:

Quote:

NG are first responders and yet get crap for training.

they are not first responders, you will not the NG responding to any thing before LEO, and fire. they suplement the ranks of those who are on the frount lines, but they do so after the lines have been established.

according to the Dept of homeland security they fall into that catagory.
If it is bad enough there is no LINE (Katrina)

Yes I know LEO and Fire fighters are first responders, BUT then I am even more of a first responder then they are since If I see something happening I will respond before they get there( already freed and pulled a trapped driver from a flipped over and burning car by the time LEO and Fire got there tires had popped and car was toast) And before you say with what I keep at 15 10 pound ABC's spread threw out the house and 20 more 2 pounders, Company level med kit or if need be enough fire power for a sustained firefight.

At least LEO's can get to a range to shoot even if the dept hardly gives them ammo or time to

Technicaly ALL citizens are first responders, it's just that tomany are first sit on thier butt's and wait for some one else to do the heavy lifting.

The NG always get short changed. They are only in the news when stacking sand bags when the desplaines river floods over.

Again I was not slamming LEO's or Firefighters, and EMT's. Just commenting on the lack of training and budget for the NG

Corporal Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 788

Quote:

The NG always get short changed. They are only in the news when stacking sand bags when the desplaines river floods over.

Again I was not slamming LEO's or Firefighters, and EMT's. Just commenting on the lack of training and budget for the NG

The NG range closings was one thing I noticed as well, but to talk about budgets allocations it is not enough and probably never will be. But a good compromise would be to allow a range to open and anyone who wants to shoot there would have to bring their own ammunition. That way state governments don't have to allocate money for ammunition and allow drill dates for shooting.

But since the EPA wanted to close the ranges due to lead contamination, then why not close the police ranges for the same reason. Unless people think that police use their weapons more than national guard members, of that's right don't national guard soldiers get deployed, and aren't we at war with terrorism?

My bad for the not knowing.

Corporal Joined: Dec 12, 2006 Posts: 327

The National Guard and miltary ranges that are used (Marseilles, Great Lakes Naval) use mostly lead-free small arms ammo (9MM, 5.56 NATO, 12 gauge). The ranges are well-ventilated. The old National Guard Armory ranges are msotly closed. Marseilles only allows small arms up to 5.56 (no 7.62). In basic training, which is pretty brief on most small arms, familiarization rather than full qualification courses are shot. It is rarer and rarer for any citizens to use these ranges. They do allow some law enforcement use of the ranges.

Corporal Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 788

Yeah we shoot at Marcellus. Like I mentioned though the minimum requirement is one per year minimum, but that doesn't mean it always is once per year but I do think that armories that have ranges should be allowed to shoot.

A good compromise could be that the ammunition has to be lead free, if possible so that NG members can shoot more often. But granted people like myself who do shoot more do goto ranges with 75 - 82 feet ranges that allow "assault weapons" so I can practice my shooting.

I just find it funny that NG ranges are closed while police ranges stay open, especially if the reasoning is EPA lead contamination.

If they want to close the ranges fine but don't start banning AR15 rifles within state at the same time. I do find the money and budget issue really funny how the state allocates government money. My time in DC has exposed me to government and state allocation process. Most times funded agencies like the guard, if they have excess supplies, the following year their funding gets cut due to excess. I know when I was in the reserves, we would purposely shoot off our excess ammunition so our allocations would not diminish the following year.

But with state governments that are allowing state health care for children in Illinois, and eventually a try to have health care for all Illinoisans (which I'm not really against) I do see where state priorities lie in term of money allocations.